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Matt and Sean talk about the cadets reconsidering their paths in Star Trek Starfleet Academy Season 1, Episode 7, “Ko’Zeine.”
Matt and Sean talk about the cadets reconsidering their paths in Star Trek Starfleet Academy Season 1, Episode 7, “Ko’Zeine.”
- (00:00) - - Intro
- (01:27) - - Viewer feedback
- (08:15) - - Today’s episode
- (08:35) - - This time in history
- (09:47) - - Episode discussion
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Creators and Guests
What is Trek In Time?
Join Sean and Matt as they rewatch all of Star Trek in order and in historical context.
Sean Ferrell: In this episode of Trek in Time, we're talking about choosing a path. That's right, we're talking about Starfleet Academy Season 1, Episode 7, originally aired on February 19, 2026. Welcome, everybody, to Trek in Time. This is, of course, the podcast that takes a look at Star Trek in chronological stardate order. For the most part, like an overwhelming percentage of our episodes are in chronological stardate order. Unless it's a new series, in which case we put a pause on that. Right now. We're partway through season three of the original series. We put a pause on that to visit these episodes, the first season of Starfleet Academy. As soon as this is over, we'll return to the original series, where we're probably just a couple of months away from actually hitting the movies. So we hope you'll be interested in joining us there. But for now, we're taking a look at Starfleet Academy. As I mentioned, episode seven. This is the episode Ko’Zeine, which aired on February 19, 2026. I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm a writer. I write some sci fi, I write some horror. And with me, as always, is my brother Matt. He's that Matt behind Undecided with Matt Ferrell, which takes a look at emerging tech and its impact on our lives matter. Matt, how are you doing today?
Matt Ferrell: I'm doing very well. Really excited to talk about today's episode, Sean.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, me too. So, without further ado, let's get into it. Before we go into the conversation about the episode, we always like to visit the mailbag, see what everybody had to say about the previous episode. So, Matt, what did you find for us this week?
Matt Ferrell: Well, the first comment from Series Acclamation Mil was from Paleghost69. I wanted to bring up says I like this one a lot. There were a few too many record scratch moments, mostly in the interpersonal relationships department. Other than that though, it was the best episode so far. Followed up by Jason Dumb saying, nice episode, best so far. For me, the show may be hitting its stride. I had some minor quibbles, but still pretty good Trek. So from Series Acclamation Mil, it seems like the comments, there's some a thread of people saying, hey, I like the way this is going. This is kind of, kind of catching my fancy. Finally, there were comments that were basically saying, this is Kurtzman Trek, it's not real Trek. I take issue with that because what is Trek? It's gonna be different for every person. So just saying it's a Kurtzman Trek doesn't mean it's not Star Trek. But yeah, so some people seem to have written off the show just because it has something to do with Kurtzman, who produced it.
Sean Ferrell: Can I put a pause in. Can I put a pause in this just to respond to that? Yeah, yeah, I just happened today, there is a letter column in the New York Times, which is Judge John Hodgman. So it's John Hodgman responding to letters from the public. And somebody wrote in to say, do I have to watch a TV show with my son that I hate? And it was a person writing in to say, I have a teenage son. The only thing he will not watch TV with me normally unless it is one particular program which I do not like. It was Deep Space Nine.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, man.
Sean Ferrell: He said, I remember not liking it, and I do not want to watch it. Is it okay for me to say, no, I won't watch that with my son? And John came back and said, you're wrong. History has borne out the Deep Space Nine is now viewed as one of the better Treks. I think that we're living constantly in the era of, well, whatever new thing of what I love is not enough to match the nostalgia of the thing that I love. And we're seeing that on display right now, I think. And the online debates around this program in particular, that are all like, it's Kurtzman Trek. It's not real Trek. It's not Trek. Like, Trek can't Trek be what you make of it? And can't Trek be what you decide you're gonna be okay with?
Matt Ferrell: Not specific to the comments on this specific episode, but it was. I've been seeing a lot of this hatred against this show specifically. Cause it's Kurtzman and people railing against Kurtzman.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And it's almost like people are saying to people who like this show, you're not liking Star Trek. Correct.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: You gotta like it the right way. It's like, come on, come on. Yeah, let me enjoy my Trek. Don't yuck my yum. Just let me enjoy what I'm enjoying. But related to that, because of our timing snafu, Sean and I had to record today's episode at a different date. And the next episode's actually already out. And there were two comments that continue this theme that I wanted to bring up. So this is from Come, let's away. We had Mark Loveless chiming in. Wow, this one was rather dark. I actually loved this one. Giamatti made it creepy as fast. Lots of good plot points, and love the twist at the end. A real knife in the back twist. That's it. I'm all in for Star Trek Starfleet Academy. I mean, that to me is. It's showing me that the show's taken a little bit to get its sea legs.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: But if you were able to stick it through, you're getting the good stuff. And then on that, old Trekkie wrote, well, you've done it. I watched the first episode and I didn't like it. I gave it a second chance with the second episode, but I still didn't like it. Listening to y' all talking about subsequent episodes, I thought, okay, give it another chance. Now I have to say I'm beginning to like the show. As in the commentary on the current episode, I found the Vulcan cadet invoking Spock. A famous Starfleet officer once said, the needs of the many and then ends up sacrificing himself. Poignant. Live long and prosper. Yep, yep, yep.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, I'm glad to see. I'm glad to see. Like I. And you said, don't yuck my yum. I won't yuck anybody saying, this isn't for me.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah. If you don't like it, you don't like it, it's totally fine.
Sean Ferrell: If you don't like it, you don't like it. But to dismiss it out of hand because it's Kurtzman is involved, or dismiss it out of hand just because it's new, which I think a lot of the pushback just boils down to new, doesn't work. You know? Mark, glad to see you're finding a place for you. I'm glad old Trekkie is finding their place as well at the table for this show. I, I think that there's so many times that we forget the struggles of the nostalgia filled episodes. If you're watching our rewatch of the original series, we have given a kind of response to most of the episodes. There are those episodes like, this is the one I remember from my childhood that defined what Trek was for me. And then the next three episodes will be us going and then occasionally going, okay, no. And so the high points are a lot less frequent than the kind of middling points. But the high points are so good that they kind of became lighthouses for us and they take over our memory around what this show is. And I feel like when you think back to Next Generation, and Matt and I have talked about this off the cuff a number of times, the first couple of seasons are rough. They're not that great. We're going to have some interesting rewatch moments in those first couple of seasons. Because what we have in the first two seasons particular, that's a full year of us recording. And it's going to be interesting because we're going to have a full year of like, I can't wait to get to season three because there's going to be a lot of us saying like, they're wearing pajamas, they don't look comfortable. And the writing is sometimes not so great. And then in season three, it's suddenly like, hey, you know what? We just discovered what the show is. And suddenly our feet are on the ground.
When you look at this particular program, we've only really talked about one episode in particular that we're like, this was just bad.
Matt Ferrell: Episode two.
Sean Ferrell: And I've said it, I said it last week and I'll say it again, you make Season Episode 2 part of the pilot. Just build out a bigger episode. I don't think you got a clunker. I don't think we have a clunker. And I'm impressed by that. So Kurtzman or not, I think the show is doing a really good job. That noise you hear, those lights you see, that's not Sean falling in love with a TV show now it's Matt getting ready to tackle the Wikipedia description for Ko’Zeine.
Matt Ferrell: The Academy cadets go on a four day break and are challenged by how their choices and desires conflict with older expectations.
Sean Ferrell: This episode broadcast on February 19, 2026. And what was the world like at that time? Well, believe it or not, Matt, you were still singing along to Bad Bunny. That's right, DTMF was still churning in our eardrums. Take it away, Matt. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Matt's phonetically learned Spanish is impeccable. And at the movies, number one film for the second week, Wuthering Heights. This is the Margot Robbie, Jacob Elordi version of the film. And on television in streaming the program the Night Agent on Netflix gained top spots on this, its debut day, February 19, 2026. And in the news from the New York Times, the front page story. As Trump obliterates climate efforts, states try to fill the gap. Across the country, Democratic led states are accelerating their initiatives to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Their role just became much more important. This is a follow up story to the Trump administration having removed the EPA's findings that certain things in the atmosphere are not good for us. On now to our conversation about this episode. Matt, you knew it was coming. There's a pattern. There's a pattern at play in all of Star Trek. And I'm not complaining when I say you give them the dark episode, they usually follow. It's the best of both worlds conundrum, I think. Best of both worlds. Famously, Picard is captured. He turns into Locutus of Borg. He's on his way to Earth, nothing can stop him. They manage to stop him. They managed to not only stop the Borg, but rescue Picard. And then the follow episode is Picard returning to the vineyard in France and having a tough moment with his brother as PTSD broiling underneath the surface. And meanwhile Worf is reconnecting with his Earth human parents. And overall a terrific episode.
But that pattern of really dark episode followed by something a little lighter and something a little bit about processing follows on the heels. We have that here. I will admit to expecting it. And again, I'm not necessarily complaining. I'm just saying it'd be nice to see invention of a different type of follow up episode to the dark episode don't necessarily hit the nail on the head every single time. So I just wanted to throw that out there. To start off with. How did you feel about the fact that this episode, not that it was a different tone than the previous one, but as far as like that kind of episode, do you agree that it's the kind of episode we've become accustomed to in the follow up to the heavier hitter of the previous week?
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, I mean they, they typically do this where they'll have a big kind of like high impact, high action, high thriller level episode and they follow it up with the more smaller emotional, character driven episode. And this is no different. This is just a character driven episode where characters are revealing some of their dark secrets, some of the things of how they're dealing with the trauma of what they just went through. Uh, I think it's, I don't know. You said you, you wish that it like they would do it in a way that was a little more original when they do this kind of stuff.
Sean Ferrell: I think it, I think it's not necessarily that it's. They should avoid doing this kind of stuff or that it needs to be original. I just found myself thinking, have we landed in a terrain where there are certain types of Trek episodes?
Matt Ferrell: Yeah, this is definitely a type of.
Sean Ferrell: And I'm wondering, do we just see the types now? Are we trapped in a. Well, this is our dark heavy hitter episode. This is our recovery episode. This is our funny episode. This is our flashback episode. Are we trapped in types. It's kind of a big picture question that's not about this particular episode just kind of about Trek in general.
Matt Ferrell: I would say no, mainly because it's like you're throwing a gigantic rock into a pond, and then there's the ripples that come out after it. And it's like, for me, some of the most interesting storytelling comes out of the ripples, not the actual rock going into the water. So it's like last week's episode was that rock, and then this is the ripples, and we're getting to see the effects of what just happened. And we complimented how Paul Giamatti's character is so devious and dark and like, he, like, is playing chess where he's eight moves ahead and he's contrived everything in just the right way to get exactly the thing he wants. And now we're seeing how deeply it's impacted all of the characters we're following. It's like, to me, that's just.
Sean Ferrell: That's like.
Matt Ferrell: That's, like, meaty content. It's like, I want to see that. I want to. I want to see how the captain deals with it. I want to see how, like, Jay-Den deals with it and Darem deals with it. I want to see how the characters are grappling with what just happened to them. To me, that's where the real interest and drama comes from.
Sean Ferrell: What I think is interesting of what you just said is we didn't actually get Nahla Ake's response, and I wonder if we're going to get that in another episode along with Tarima Sadal's episode or recovery story, because she does not feature in this episode other than as the person that Caleb hasn't yet reached out to, despite the fact of their being in a relationship. So I found myself thinking, like, oh, we're. We're going to get a. The other side of this coin is going to be told. So we have here on display. It's again, another type of episode. I love this kind of story where you take the norm and then you. You empty it so that the. The structures around all the characters become more present as everybody else has gone. And here we have that in. It is a holiday. So all the other students leave except for Caleb, who's the only one who's allowed to stay because he doesn't have family anywhere that he want that he's able to go visit. So we end up with this, oh, it's gonna be him solo in this episode. And then they pull the rug out from underneath that because I thought, okay, are we gonna be given a Home Alone episode where he's gonna have to defend the. Or are we going to have. There's actually a Paul Giamatti movie, which is a holiday film, which I strongly recommend. The. I believe it's called the Holdovers, which is him as a teacher at a school, and a number of students who have no other place to go are there over the holiday break. And he is given chaperone duties to keep an eye on the students. And it is a really lovely film, and Giamatti does an amazing job in it, and it is well worth the watch. But it's that kind of moment where you're like, oh, is that what this is going to be? And it is a little bit of that. In the connective tissue between two characters where we see Bella Shepherd's Genesis ends up returning to the school.
She does not have permission. She sneaks in. And so we get some nice bonding moments between her and Caleb, which. Before we get into the plot elements, what did you think about the chemistry of these two actors together and how they were exploring their character's relationship to each other?
Matt Ferrell: I thought it was. Their chemistry is really good. I mean, I don't know if you remember, but, like, in the pilot, they almost set it up. Like, those two, Caleb and Genesis looked like they were gonna be an item. Cause the way they set it up, there was, like a spark between the two of them the first time they met. Cause they're the first two that talk to each other. And it's not until later that he meets Tarima. So the chemistry was there from the very beginning. And so the one concern I had, Sean, was that, oh, God, are we gonna get this little high school drama? Yeah, I like him, she likes me. Like, are we gonna get that little love triangle thing going? Cause I hope they don't. Honestly, we can get into the specifics of that later. But, like, there definitely was chemistry here. You could feel it like, that there's a definite connection between these two characters and the actors. They seem to get along really well, and you could. It felt very authentic.
Sean Ferrell: I also wanted to, like, just from an actor to actor perspective, we get another moment where we see Nahla Ake in a kind of parental role with Caleb. And I feel like the two of them have a lot of great chemistry. They work off of each other really well as far as, like, saying serious things, but doing it with a wink or saying something that seemingly is banal, but underneath it, it's a real revelation. So you get these moments where they know how to play well with each other on screen. How did you feel about the dynamics of. Because there's kind of a bookending of scenes with Inala, her sending, being sent off, effectively leaving and saying, okay, I'll reluctantly let you stay here. Followed at the end with the, okay, I see what you kids have been up to. I'm not pleased about this sort of book ending. How did you feel about the relationship with Holly Hunter as an actress? With the other two as well?
Matt Ferrell: It's the same deal. It's like, there's definitely rapport. Like, again, this is more a comment on the actors than the storytelling. But, like, between Sandro Rosta and Holly Hunter, there's an amazing chemistry. Mentor to mentee, a familiarity between the two and the way that they have this nice repartee and go back and forth in a very natural way. It does not feel contrived. It feels very natural and authentic. So it's the same deal. It's like, there's a great relationship there. I think Holly Hunter's relationship to him, and this is clearly from the writing, but also the acting. It seems like there's this real tight, almost motherly, sonly relationship. And then the other students, there's definitely a familiarity there, like with Bella's character, Genesis, but it's clearly different. And so it's interesting to see that dynamic of how she relates to the other students versus him.
Sean Ferrell: Agreed. I agree with all of that. Finally, we get a different pairing than, you know, we've seen a number of pairings up to this point. We're in the seventh episode at this point. It feels a little bit like we've had an opportunity to see most everybody in the main group work off of somebody else at least once. We had a previous very nice scene for Jay-Den and Darem, where Darem came in and kind of coached Jay-Den in the episode where it was about the ability to debate in public and Jay-Den was panicking about this. And it was the flashback episode for him revealing his relationship to his Klingonness, what Klingon meant in a world where Kling. In a universe where Klingon did not have a home world anymore. And what does it mean to try and save a species that seems to be pushing back on that? And we had what was effectively a very small scene in the larger episode where Darem shows up and says, like, you've got to remember to breathe, and teaches him a breathing technique that Jay-Den is then able to rely on. In this episode, we get Jay-Den preparing to go to Ibiza with his boyfriend. I think at this point, they are very clearly saying, like, this is a relationship, a romantic relationship between him and a member of the War College. It's interrupted when he happens to see what looks like Darem getting kidnapped. And so he goes off to follow Darem and ends up with a kind of inadvertent, I'm now your best man at your wedding moment. So we get a lot of the two of them, which I think from a writing perspective is very interesting that they drop the potency of the relationship was in a small, tiny little scene where at the time that we talked about that, we said it felt like this could have turned into something bigger. It felt like such a powerful, intimate moment. And you and I both were like, that was so good. It's surprising it wasn't bigger.
And now we see why it wasn't, because they probably had this one on the notepad as far as like. And then we'll do an episode where the two of them have more time together and we see a lot of the two of them together. So again, I'm going to ask you as far as how they. How they work with each other, how they push off of each other, how they play together on screen, what did you think about the dynamics of that pairing? Broken record.
Matt Ferrell: This is where I'm like, it doesn't. It's. It's not. It's not clicking for me. And it's not a knock against the actors. It doesn't feel like there's the chemistry there that the other ones that we've talked about have. So for me, in this episode, this is the weakest part, this plot line. Every time they'd go back to the planet, I'd be like, oh, God, here we go. Can we just get this over? That's how I honestly felt during all these scenes. And it's not a knock, again, against the actors. It's just. There's some. There's a missing chemistry there. I see what they're trying to do. And that breathing scene in that previous episode was powerful. And it. There was a definite connection there between the two of them. And it felt like they were about to kiss and all this kind of stuff. So it's like they're definitely setting that up, but it's. In this last episode, it just. It didn't click. It didn't feel authentic. And to get into the plotline just a little bit felt a little too preachy.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, go ahead and just like, dive into the plot at this point. This is a plot storyline which is revolving around Darem returning home, arranged unexpectedly thinking that he is going to get married. And this is a deal that he has had with his, he calls her his best friend. He doesn't say my girlfriend, he says my best friend. That they would get married after he had had several years in Starfleet and then they would become co rulers of their world. So this is, this is the equivalent, I think that it's, it's meant to have the same kind of shock value as in the original series in amok time. Oh, that's my betrothed, that's my, that's my spouse from Spock. I have to go back to Vulcan and get married or I'm gonna die. This doesn't quite land in quite the same way. It doesn't feel like it has the same impact. So why don't you go a bit into what you're thinking around all of that was okay.
Matt Ferrell: So this is why it feels preachy to me because this, his whole storyline of he's basically going to become the king he's been, his wife's going to be the queen, they're going to be like leading this entire planet. Interesting, but it was a clearly a metaphor for him coming out as gay is how it felt to me. It was like this whole storyline was just a metaphor for coming out to your family and basically making it clear what you actually are and what you actually want and how difficult that is. And I get why they did it the way they did it storytelling wise but it felt so inauthentic and it felt it had drips of Star Trek Discovery to me, which is the thing I didn't like about Star Trek Discovery is it was preachy as all get out and the character relations didn't feel earned. They felt like laid on top. It felt very surface level, like oh, you're supposed to love this character. Well why do I love this character? I just learned their name yesterday. Like it's, there's a whole aspect to the way Discovery was done that kind of kept you disconnected from a bunch of characters. And there was an element of that to this to me because of that preachiness and the way that they were handling the metaphor of homosexuality. And that's fine to handle that subject on Star Trek. I'm all for it, it's great. But it's just the way it was actually executed. It kind of made me feel disconnected from what was happening because as you brought up before, the chemistry for me between these two characters, it just wasn't completely there yet. And the one thing I did resonate with me during this whole plotline was the relationship between the future queen or the future head of the planet and his. His betrothed and him. Yeah, there was an interesting chemistry there. And I felt more emotional tie to the breaking of that relationship than the budding relationship between Jay-Den and Darem.
Cause, like, for me, there was like, there was a. There was two scenes in particular, like when the best man is supposed to be giving his speech and he doesn't show up. And he shows up at the last minute and he gives a speech. And the speech he gives, I will say, was super well written. I thought it was really well written and well delivered. And it was wonderful. The subtext that it felt like Jay-Den was deliberately trying to give the betrothed. It felt like that's. He was deliberately trying to dig and make it clear this is not the man you think he is. Every. Although I can't remember the exact words she was saying, but it was. He is somebody who would sacrifice himself. He's somebody that would be put service above himself. He kept saying that. He puts himself second and he kept saying it away. And they. The way it was directed of kind of like closing in on her and you could see her getting it of like her like, oh, God, he's only doing this because he feels obligated to. This is not what he wants. Right. And then later when in this. In the kind of like the reception area where she comes over to him and says, I'm going to tell everybody it's off and I'm doing this. Cause I know this is not what you want. I thought her speech was incredibly impactful and very heartfelt and it really kind of struck a chord with me. But again, the connection between Jay-Den and Darem, it just didn't even come close to those moments for me of the budding relationship between those two. And so I felt like there was a missed opportunity there. And I'm not sure how they would have fixed it.
But for me, this is the plotline that I thought was the weakest of the entire episode.
Sean Ferrell: I don't disagree that for me this was the weakest of the storylines going on in the episode. But I think it's interesting that you. I did not interpret any of this as a metaphor for sexuality. I took it very much as just the. On the face of it, you choosing your path in life, whether that's a job, a profession, same thing.
Matt Ferrell: Like, it's the same thing is it
Sean Ferrell: is the same thing. I understand that, but it's like I didn't interpret it through the lens of budding relationship between Jay-Den and Darem. I interpreted their awkwardness with each other as the awkwardness of. They kept. They had several moments in the episode where it was pointed out that the other cadets think Darem's an asshole and kind of like, reassert that at the beginning. Like, your friend doesn't like me. Yeah, that's because he's an asshole. And then to his face, you're kind of an asshole. And then ending the episode with, you're an asshole. In what I thought was a very funny scene at the end where Darem has the opportunity to be nice to his boyfriend and then says, that's a terrible burn. You're an idiot. What? You fought with a fire in the sky. Like, I thought the writing of all of that was very funny. I thought that was all very engaging. But.
Matt Ferrell: But you didn't take that as he did. He did that to create the rift.
Sean Ferrell: Didn't interpret any of that about anything. About interpersonal connections or triangulation or liking somebody who's in a different relationship. I didn't interpret any of that.
Matt Ferrell: Oh, man.
Sean Ferrell: As.
Matt Ferrell: There was so much. There was so much googly eyes, Sean. There was so much googly eyes between them, two of them, that they're setting up. And that it became clear by the end of that experience, Jay-Den is now seeing Darem in a different light. And he's kind of look. He was looking at him kind of like, what if. And then on that deck, when the boyfriend came over, Darem did that thing. He was clearly. He was trying to set the. Put the barrier back to give him an.
Sean Ferrell: I don't disagree with that, but I didn't. I didn't read that as being as much in the foreground, I think, as you did.
Matt Ferrell: It was very subtle. It was subtle.
Sean Ferrell: It was. I think. And what I found myself thinking, was there supposed to be. Is there a relationship here? As opposed to. It sounds like you took it a little bit more as seeing the wires and being like, oh, they're trying to
Matt Ferrell: like, yeah, yep, I'm seeing the wires.
Sean Ferrell: And I was like. Like, oh, is there supposed to be a relationship here? So I was in. I was maybe a little more falling into the immersion than you were, which for me made it a little. As we're talking about it now and. And thinking about my watching experience, I did find myself a little confused by it. Maybe there's that, like, I'm agreeing with you because I didn't quite catch everything. You caught everything but saw the wires. And maybe it's like that maybe that is this us agreeing about how that all was put together.
Matt Ferrell: Yeah.
Sean Ferrell: So to move backward from there to the cause, I really think that as far as, like, the plotting is concerned, that's the secondary storyline. I feel like the primary is supposed to be Caleb with Genesis. There's two things that are going on here that I think are really interesting to explore. There's the one of them coming together as kind of like the experience of. Of everything they've been going through and seeing each other in this. In this interesting way. And then there's the manipulation element. And I'd like to visit the manipulation element first, because that was the one that. Did you see that coming down the road? Like, and again, I guess this falls into, like, did you see the wires? Did you see coming down the road that she was going to use him in the way that she ended up doing? Because I found myself in the episode surprised by that. Not displeased. Surprised by it. Because what I saw was she has clearly returned here because she panicked when she heard her transcripts are gonna be shared, and she panicked. And in that moment, she then returns, and I'm like, she's clearly going to try and do something, but is she just letting herself fall into the distraction of, I'm going to pretend my problems don't exist? And then it turned out to be this manipulative element, and I found it really, really strong and really, really compelling. So what was your take on all of that?
Matt Ferrell: So, yes, I did see the wires in this one, too. But, like, a good magic trick magician comes out and he's going to put fabric in front of the assistant and then whip it away, and they're gonna be gone, you know, like, you know. You know what's about to happen. You can see the. You can see the trick forming, like, oh, I know what they're gonna do. And then they do something to subvert your attention in a way that you weren't expecting, and you're kind of distracted. And then at the end of the trick, they did make the assistant disappear. You're still like, whoa, oh, whoa. Like, you're still kind of caught off guard and surprised and delighted and, like, ah, didn't happen the way I expected. That's how I felt about this. It's like I saw the seeds in the beginning when the captain says, I want to put you on the captain's track. And then she says, yeah, well, your father's gonna be so happy. You know, we're get all your records and check your references. And her face sinks it was like. Immediately I was like, okay, plotline for her is she's done something she shouldn't have and she's going to try to fix it. So when she showed up, my initial instinct was she came back because she has to do something while everybody's gone to fix whatever she did. And I had no idea what it was, but that's what I thought it was going to be. And then the episode went on and I got distracted because it was just the two of them goofing off in that lab. And the funny thing with the slug and, like, all this other stuff is happening, and then when it came, and then they're goofing off and they're on. They're in their captain's bridge.
Sean Ferrell: This is.
Matt Ferrell: This is what I was expecting. But it, like, they. They totally subverted my attention and kind of distracted me, where it was a very fun reveal, even though I felt like I knew where it was going in the beginning. Does that make sense?
Sean Ferrell: Yes. Yes. Well done. That is, I think, in a nutshell, what I usually describe as being the sign of really great writing is when you know what's coming and then you forget what's coming because the writing is so strong. A movie like Sunset Boulevard shows you the end at the beginning, and it's just like, this is what happens, and then it tells you the story. And then when that thing happens, you're like, oh, my God. The brilliance of that movie is that, like, you already know what is coming. And then when it shows up, you're like, there was a train coming down that track. I didn't know there was a train on that track. Like, yes, you did. Everybody knew there was a train coming down that track. This does that, I think, really, really well. One of the nice elements is then the. The will they, won't they? Which you mentioned. Like, oh, is there, like. Are they doing something? I think that they intentionally put that balloon up so they could pop it and then move on from it and, like, remove that from the sequence.
Matt Ferrell: I don't know if you feel this way, but I felt like, oh, God, they're starting to form a love triangle here. But that balloon did get kind of popped. It still feels like it's there. There's like a gossamer thread that they could tug if they want to. I hope they don't, because it feels like Genesis and Caleb, their relationship is almost brother and sister.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: Like, that's what it feels like it's forming into.
Sean Ferrell: They have a very tight.
Matt Ferrell: They're gonna have a very tight relationship, but it's not a romantic one.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah.
Matt Ferrell: And it feels like the romantic one is Tarima, so it feels like there's not gonna be a love triangle. But I'm glad that they kind of, again, subverted it. But I'm just worried that the writing's good and I'm hoping they didn't subvert my expectations. Just for them to pull that gossamer thread in episode 8 or something like that, you know, I don't want that. Like, I'd prefer it to be a little more just, you know, realistic. Not every. We're not in Grey's Anatomy here, and not everybody's sleeping with everybody. It's like, let's just.
Sean Ferrell: Let's just.
Matt Ferrell: You know what I mean? It's like, let's just simmer down here, folks. Let's just keep it simple.
Sean Ferrell: I completely agree with that. And I think that one of the things that stood out to me about, like, as you mentioned, the sibling relationship, we see Nahla step into a similar parent relationship with Genesis in this one in a way that we haven't seen it before. She starts the episode with, I'm so proud of you. You did such a remarkable job. I'm putting you forward for the command track, which is a very teacher thing to do. And then the episode ends with this, I'm disappointed in you kids. And she's treating them as equals in her reprimand. And it boils down to, you two are now a set in my eyes. And the two of them are literally mopping a floor and sitting down and talking. When Caleb gives the. There was a second there where I forgot about Tarima. And it's a, you gotta call her, you gotta talk. You gotta talk to her. There's no, like, yeah, I saw it too. It's just like, you need to do this other thing. And as far as Caleb's relationship with Tarima, you know, it's. Some of it has to happen off screen. Some of it has, like, there have to be moments where we see one of them and not the other one. And we've tended to land on Caleb far more often. I hope we get the opportunity to see Tarima in isolation. I do. To get more of her story. Because you don't want her to become a manic pixie dream girl who just shows up and she's just magically like, I can solve problems and you can be in love with me, and you don't want that to be all she is. Having said that, I liked the letter writing in this. I liked the, I'm gonna put together this thing and I'm gonna delete it. And he's probably done that two or three times a day for all the month they say has passed, so that he's not able to get over that without Genesis saying, like, you really need to do this. You know, you do hit send before you the embarrassment, before the embarrassment can take root.
And he does that and he sends what I think is nicely written missive in this one, where we get a number of characters talking to or about each other in this one. And I think the writing around all of that is very strong. So I think that they really are coming at this in a really strong way as far as how to build the connective lines. Not how do you just build a character, but how do you build the characters with each other so that we get that entire. The entire group is effectively getting our support. So with that being said, I mean, it sounds like both you and I are like, yeah, another good one.
Matt Ferrell: This is not at the level of the past couple that we've, like, really liked, but it's a good, solid episode. I think it hits what it's supposed to do. No complaints. No major complaints.
Sean Ferrell: Yeah, it's not. Everything can be earth shattering. I couldn't believe they did that. I can't believe how much I enjoyed that. It's like just having an episode that feels like, yeah, it's part of the story is a success. So in that case, this is a success. So with that being said, I would love to see. What did everybody think about this one? Jump into the comments. Was there anything about this particular episode that you wish Matt and I had talked about more? Let us know. As always, liking subscribing, commenting, sharing with your friends. These are all great, easy ways for you to support the podcast. And if you'd like to support us more directly, you can go to trekintime.show, where you can support us directly. We appreciate you throwing the coins at our heads. And then when we get your name in our ledgers, we will also make you an Ensign, which means you will be signed up for Out of Time, which is our spin off program from this one in which we talk about things that don't fit within the confines of this show. In other words, anything else we're watching that's not Star Trek, so we hope you'll be interested in checking that out. Thank you so much, everybody, for taking the time to watch or listen, and we'll talk to you next time.